ABT BREAM 2012

This is the place to discuss all matters relating to BREAM fishing and tournaments.

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Steve Morgan
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ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Steve Morgan » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:16 pm

Here’s what we currently have planned for 2012 BREAM. With the popularity of teams events, we’ve decided to do fewer BREAM events, but do them better.

• Eight BREAM Qualifiers nationally.
- Qld x 1
- NSW North x 1
- NSW South x 1
- Vic x 1
- Sa x 1
- WA x 1
- TAS x 1
Plus an extra qualifier in the state with the GF for that year. Therefore an extra one for Qld in 2012 and an extra one for Vic in 2013.

• All qualifiers the same format
- boater/non-boater.
- 2 day events with one day prefish.
- all events live streamed.
- live stream to include latest scoreboards, updated by the minute.
- expanded coverage in local magazines.
- More than one person to qualify for AFC per season – more like four will come from Grand Final and AOY/Rankings performances. (First episode of AFC Series 8 will air on Nov 6, 2011, BTW).
• Win a bass boat at the GF (same as 2011).
• AOY now national, not state based.
• Rankings points modified to suit new numbers of events.
• Around five qualifiers per division per event (40 boats) with the balance of GF participants (circa 10 anglers per division) coming from the national AOY points.

In 2011, our feedback indicated that price was a sensitive issue, rather than payback percentage. As in anglers would prefer a $100 tournament with no payback than a $300 with 90% payback. Is this still the case? Note that ABT will position these events at a higher price point/payback percentage than a standard teams event, but lower than the Australian Open. Maybe $200 to $300 for a boater and $100 for a non-boater.

It’s a shame to see the Super Series events on the shelf for the moment. Most people indicated that the time required to do a 3-day event was becoming more difficult to get. Three day event options will still be there for Australian Open, Queensland Open and Grand Final.

Now, we know that there will be disappointment that there are reductions in qualifiers in each state, but we’re working to minimise the impact of this. For instance, for a mainlander, instead of the Tassie Tour being made up of 2 x ABT Qualifiers, it’ll now be made up of a single Qualifier and a Tassie BREAM Classic event the weekend before. You still travel down and fish two events, it’s just now you’ll fish one with your mate.
From an industry point of view, we think that it’s important to keep the BREAM events at this level. There’s plenty of one-day classics to get an appetite for tournament fishing and for teams fishing, but ABT is the only place you can challenge yourself as an individual and get real coverage – not just some internet glory – for your achievements.

As such, the Tour Guide is an integral part of ABT’s formula and will remain in its current format – printed copies mailed to members, sold copies through newsagents and free-to-read online. The enhanced statistics sections seemed popular this year – we’ll keep them going.

Happy to wear all the criticism you can dish out, but please try to keep comments constructive. Think about balancing the ‘good for me’ and ‘good for the sport’ versions of your experiences.

We invite your comments!
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Drewy
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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Drewy » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:10 pm

Got to say Im loving everything Im reading Steve, fewer events and still the same grand final payout means the true cream will rise to the top. I'm very interested in how the national ranking points are going to change.

Thanks
Drew

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by nuzzy » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:27 pm

It all sounds good, whats going to happen to the BREAM membership fees? for me its going to be a bit hard to justify spending 100 or so dollars on a 12 month membership to only do 1 event. Maybe you can look into providing lower entry fees for members and higher fees for those who only do the one off tourneys. just a suggestion.

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Dell » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:45 pm

So will AOY work on say all comps you fish or something along the lines of best 3 finishses?
and are abt considering running some team comps to make up for less individual comps?

cheers

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by fire blood » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:21 pm

Yep You boys might get flamed SM lol
I think it's good on a way it makes abt's more a prestigious thong to enter let alone win, so it could actualy attract more sponsors. Good to see something get done with AFC iv found it a bit stale the last few years, I understand the costs to film are huge it just might inject a bit more into it again and make it more achievable for those on the fringe.
Nice one SM
When do the Hobie dates come out?

DW
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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Adventure » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:51 pm

Nice to see more going through to the AFC ..
In my opinion by dropping the number of Qualifiers makes it alot harder for new comers to gain the Experience needed to Qualify and gives home town advantages to the locals where the Quailifers are held, others that have easy access to the area or that have done X amount of Comps there before idk .

It will also come down to if you have a Bad run even 1 day you have to travel along way interstate to try and Qualify else where thats ok for the fulltime Comp anglers getting some support but not to good for joe blow that has 4 kids and might turn some away .... Will also change the amount of non boaters that are keen to get a look into ABT Comps at that Level before outlaying a packet on Boats and gear if they didnt like the Extra pressure or feel that this style of fishing wasn't for them it ok for everyone that is setup and here now i will used to words Seasoned Pro's but a disadvange to new comers and the growth of the Sport /hobby

Sponsers want to sell products and have them seen in use by Anglers in events etc so they sell more .. i dont know in my opinion wheater (makes abt's more a prestigious thong to enter let alone win, so it could actualy attract more sponsors ) i disagree its about growth =Sales =$$$$ =Spend more to make more $$$ = Sponsorship .. thats my opinion which we all have a right to .

Its ok to say do some Classic Events or Team Events but that isnt the real deal as to challenge yourself as an individual amongst Australia's Best Breamers ...and offers less chances for non boaters .
I am keen as to Buy a New Tournament Boat rather then use my tinnie i have now and be fully setup for the start of next year but having only 2 bream events in NSW is a Slight turn off i might buy a yak and a deep sea boat instead i planned to do alot of events get some value out of it without dragging it halfway around the country .....I really want to mix it up amongst the great Breamers looked forward to it along time ...........

Anyway thats a newbies point of view i probably have no Clue wouldn't be the first time so forgive me lol ...ill be there mixing it up sometime hopefuly soon either way ..i might be a new comer to ABT Tournaments but i was fishing plastics back in the late 80's for Bream ,whiting and flathead so be good to get amongst it and most of the so called New Fishing techniques were used back then :shock: lol there might be a few more old ones i can show uses lol Cya .
Adam
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Greg Cooper
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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Greg Cooper » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:53 am

WA Feedback !!
How Disappointing to hear the ABT has intentions to possibly reduce the WA ABT Qualifying round to 1 event per year !!
I doubt if the average WA breamer will continue to remain a ABT member Considering the costs involved to participate in 1 local event.
The ABT Events are a great nursery for upcoming breamers to join our sport and eventually go onto entering as a boaters and continue the growth of the sport here in WA .(Great for Sponsors & Tackle Stores)
As a new member I have found the past events so fulfilling, fishing and learning from some of the best bream anglers WA has to offer.
Its time for the Sponsors and tackle stores here in WA to maintain pressure on ABT and get behind our sport to ensure WA at least maintains 2 events per year !! otherwise the ABT is doomed to continue here in WA.

Greg Cooper

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by seamonkey » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:11 pm

SM

A tad off topic but it seems like a perfect time to drop the pre-fish ban. Given there will be more distance to travel anglers can focus on the event properly prior to the weekend. Smaller fields, less pressure and a more intelligent approach to the event as opposed to a one day luck fest. Less impact of a "mate" fishing the week before as there is more opportunity to all anglers. And lets face it not having a pre-fish ban has not affected the team series catch rates to any great extent.

Premium events require premium preparation - just has to be allowed.

With regard to cost the biggest issue around the traps last year was back to back Super Series in NSW. That gone, a $250 boater/$125 non boater with reasonable return seems fair.

smky

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by scott19 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:33 pm

Firstly its good to see ABT drop the Entry fees and etc as alote of people were asking for it. $400 for a super series + Travel cost did hurt.
I find a the moment the hardest thing for anglers is travel cost, Any tournament for me away from home cost upwards of $1000 each plus entry fees.
I think teams events have very high entries at the moment because all the events are held close to home and are held at the right time of year..
I would like to see more individual Tournaments run with a lower entry fee, Maybe run a Northern series , Southern series Tassie series and etc and have 3 or 4 tournaments run in the same area as the Gold Coast, Sydney, Mallacoota and etc and then the top ten out of each series Qlf for the grand final.
In this case travel cost are down for people in these local areas and if you want to travel you can and fish great areas and people don't think there missing out.

Just my two cents because with that format for next year tournament fishing is just going backwards.

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by nabs12 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:28 pm

Greg Cooper wrote:WA Feedback !!
How Disappointing to hear the ABT has intentions to possibly reduce the WA ABT Qualifying round to 1 event per year !!
I doubt if the average WA breamer will continue to remain a ABT member Considering the costs involved to participate in 1 local event.
The ABT Events are a great nursery for upcoming breamers to join our sport and eventually go onto entering as a boaters and continue the growth of the sport here in WA .(Great for Sponsors & Tackle Stores)
As a new member I have found the past events so fulfilling, fishing and learning from some of the best bream anglers WA has to offer.
Its time for the Sponsors and tackle stores here in WA to maintain pressure on ABT and get behind our sport to ensure WA at least maintains 2 events per year !! otherwise the ABT is doomed to continue here in WA.

Greg Cooper
I dont know if you mis read the post but ALL states will only have 1 qualifying round next year.. Not just WA.

Interesting outline for next year. I don't mind it at all. One thing I would like to see is a change in the way the ranking points are done. I would think a system where you gain points based on how many people you beat would work better then just giving 30 (or whatever) points to a winner. That way it actually shows how well the leaders have done.. That way the winner gains more points from beating 50 competitors then say 10 in a comp in SA.

Just something to add to the fire anyway :P

Cheers

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by mango » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:41 am

Nabs maybe you should be the one to read SM post again. Buy yourself a map of oz and you will notice that if you are in Northern or Southern NSW your still in NSW, funny that, must have something to do with the border. NSW x 2 rounds........thats why they put it on our number plates..."NSW the premier state".

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Dpack » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:48 pm

Being new to tournament fishing this is sad news. I enjoyed my time doing two of the NSW rounds this year and was planning on doing all of them during 2012.

A dam shame this will now only be one!

Dave Packham

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by nabs12 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:19 pm

Sorry Mango. I'll go buy a map.

stompy
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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by stompy » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:24 pm

Hey,

I'd like to see the ABT run teams events as 10 fish comps, this would stand them out from all the other teams events.

Cheers

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by TSlats » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:40 pm

stompy wrote:Hey,

I'd like to see the ABT run teams events as 10 fish comps, this would stand them out from all the other teams events.

Cheers
that would be an interesting format

dazzas4x4
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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by dazzas4x4 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:49 pm

Just an idea,

Copy the format for the bass comps $200 / boater and $100/ non boater
but have 2 comps per state and retain AOY for each state

just my two cents worth

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Duffy1 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:15 pm

Its a shame to see the number of qualifiers get reduced for next year. I was looking forward to the 2012 calender having brought and set up a bass boat for that reason. Now it could be just teams events to fish or maybe start trying the ABT bass and Hobie comps that are closer to home. For me to enter as a boater for 2012 it will give me one possibly two ABT bream comps a year which bums me out. Over the years I have totally enjoyed every comp I did as a non boater plus Classic GF's and now with the anticipation of stepping up it has me scratching my head on what to do for the future.
Full live stream coverage with up to date scores is a excellent idea. It's a shame that I may become a ABT armchair angler because being glued to the computer will be the only way I will see most of the ABT calender for next year.
Do the bass events get live streaming next year ?

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by tomdeer » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:58 am

I can see exactly where the ABT thinking is coming from on this one. If the numbers aren’t there for the events then something has to give. Either a new format, better promotion, innovative ideas, angler rewards, rule changes, or if all else fails reduce the number of events. While I’m not totally sure that other options have been seriously persued I can still see where they are coming from.

The reduced number of events will have no real impact on the ease or otherwise of qualifying for the GF as there will still be the same number of participants invited to the GF. It may give more of a benefit to locals in particular and then to the guys who can travel to gain AOY points, but basically your chances at the GF are no different.

Entry fee price hikes definitely appear to be a sticking point for several competitors or would be competitors. In saying this it doesn’t mean that I believe that there has to be an either or situation as stated above (“$100 tournament with no payback than a $300 with 90% payback”). Quite apart from the entry fees providing for payout there are of course sponsor dollars involved as well. While it is important to cover costs it is not the total responsibility of competitor entry fees to cover these costs. Event organisers can make a financial return from other sources.

The biggest sticking point, as I see it, is the cost of travel and accommodation to compete in these events. The WA guys have to travel 4 to 6 ours to get to their “local” events, after that it’s a case of flights, hire car, accommodation, and then borrow a boat (which can have costs). In SA we have one local event every 2 years, after that we have to travel 6 hours to our next nearest event and 11 hours to the one after that. Travel costs alone can add up to several hundreds of dollars, if not thousands.

So I will finish where I started, I understand why the ABT is reducing numbers of events. If the number of competitors aren’t there then it is pointless to run so many events.

However, if this is going to happen I would like to suggest that the ABT co-ordinate with all the local Classic organisers so that when competitors travel they can do more than one event on the same trip. This would have the affect of diluting the travel cost when averaged over the events. For example it should be possible to organise a Classic at say, Sydney Harbour, an ABT at the Hawkesbury, and a Classic at Lake Macquarie, all within three weekends. It may concentrate costs into a shorter period however, average costs will reduce for those who wish to enter more than one event.

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by TSlats » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:15 am

I'd like to see more incentive for non-boaters especially in AOY as they are the future of the sport really.
I dont mind the new format

Britto
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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Britto » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:16 pm

Guys

Just my thoughts:

- Moving AOY to national, will mean that the prize will go to that angler prepared to travel to most events - will it be a true measure of quality? Unless the AOY points system changes or counts the top results for a limited number of events, it would be very difficult for an angler whose average finish was say 5th in four events, to beat an angler whose average finish was 12th, but fished one additional event.

I think the points for angler 1 would be 380(95 x 4), whilst the points for the second angler would be 440(88 x 5). Who is the better angler and deserves AOY? If the intention is to reward those who travel and fish more, then angler B is your man, if you want to rewards the angler who delivers a consistent high level of finishes across a reasonable sample of events - then angler A is the one - remember up until now, AOY has been decided on as little as 1 ot 2 events, depending on state.

The critical point here is probably what a reasonable sample is??

It seems reasonable clear that the AOY concept for GF qualificiation is designed to make anglers travel.

A number of anglers have already voiced concerns about the cost of travel. Lower payouts do disincentivise fields. Given in recent times, payouts have not gone all the way to 10th, there will be a school of thought around an angler's thought process of travelling more with more expense, if they need to finish very high to get any chance of recouping - will be very interesting to see how that plays out given the format suggested. You could end up with more people going to teams given the ease, availability and relatively low cost for reasonable reward framework - IE they may fish the local event, but not travel further.

Some thought needs to be given boosting crowd numbers at weigh ins and greater public awareness outside of the direct competing group. Some of the team formats have been very successful at this.

Britto

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by nathanl » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:14 pm

Firstly well done ABT for committing to improving the sport and I am not saying this to be critical but be prepared to lose ABT members out of this.

Personally 2011 was my first year of comp fishing where I entered as a non boater and since I dont fish teams events I really like the opportunity to fish the ABT events in NSW, fishing in as many as I could. Depending on where the events are in NSW I could potentially end up only fishing 1 qualifier and from my point of view would really make me rethink whether my ABT membership was worth it.

Cheers,
Nathan

Steve Morgan
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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Steve Morgan » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:40 pm

Some interesting comments here. We understand your passion for the sport drives them and appreciate that!

One thing that I'd like to comment on is that there's no 'us' and 'them' when it comes to ABT random draw events and teams events. Nearly every single BREAM teams event in the country runs under ABTs guidelines and insurances - and they contribute to buying the boat that's given away at the Classic Championship.

We think that there should be more teams events and more people at the teams events than at the ABT Qualifiers. Anglers generally are comfortable fishing with their mates and the teams format (especially with entry on the day) is dead easy to run.

Five to ten years ago, this 'teams level' calendar didn't really exist, and ABT tried to fill in the gaps, running up to 14 qualifiers per year. Nowadays we don't need to. Every state has their own series of events to keep them busy during the year and every breamin' state has a pathway to the National Finals - individual or team.

Also, ABT has the capability to partner with people who think that their areas are event-poor. If there's no ABT Classics in your area, do something about it!

Like the Tassie example in the initial post, we're happy to run ABT Qualifiers and Classics close together if it's mutually beneficial.

I can't understand the logic, though, of saying that if you can't have the choice of more events, then you're not going to do any at all. Is it just me that thinks that's illogical?

If I was a local angler and didn't want to travel that much, I now have a selection of ABT affiliated BREAM Classics to fish - Gamakatsu Teams Series, BETS, The Gold Coast SFC Classics, The Port Mac and Sydney Classics,BETS, the Vic BREAM Classics, the Tas Classics, SABT and the WA BREAM Classics. Then, once a year, I get to try myself out as an individual when the ABT Qualifier comes to my state.

I could also choose to have a stab at the Australian Open or Queensland Open if I wanted more high-stakes events.

And, if I wanted to test myself on the individual tour, I now have to allocate fewer weekends to do so!

Most of the GF slots (80%) are still geared to cater for anglers that can qualify in a single event. There's now a reward, though, of some slots that go to the anglers who want to follow the tour.

Yes, the AOY structure will be changed to reflect a balance between angling ability and travel ability. It's not as if local guns have no outlets for their talents - go and dominate your local Classic series.

Broadly, I've heard hundreds of times "wouldn't it be good if we were like the USA" - referring to payouts, coverage and status of the top anglers. It seems as though every time we try and lead the industry in that direction, we're crucified for it. Think about it - neither the BASS Elite series nor the FLW tour have as many top level qualifying events as the Daiwa BREAM series!

Cheers,

Steve Morgan
ABT
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Matt Fraser
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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by Matt Fraser » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:47 pm

I think 2011 has been a disaster for ABT Bream, I’d love to see it regain its former glory.

I think the main emphasis for 2012 has to be on the competitors and getting them back. Lower entry fees is a good start - yes most of us don't care about paybacks, we don't expect to win, we just want to have a go and be part of an exciting, accessible and affordable series.

Dropping super series is good.

I agree with some AOY GF Qualifications.In the current system, the Tassie guys get shafted and the QLDers can qualify just be getting in the top ten sometimes. National AOY is also a good idea to get more people to do more events.

Dropping to eight events is not good, it means anglers will have to travel more if they want to be competitive, this will not appeal to the average angler.
I believe you need to stick with at least twelve qualifiers, so that anglers in most areas, have an easy drive to at least two events.

To alleviate running costs, and allow each state to have two qualifiers, ABT could outsource event co-ordination to other organisations in each state. Every state now has an organisation that runs successful teams comps. They have the equipment and skills to successful run comps already. All the back end work would be done through ABT, with on-site organisation left to the State Organisations (pretty much the same as running classics) – Except it would be a qualifier! One ABT member could fly in to oversee the events and work the mic. Heaps less time on the ground and the road for Simon and Chris, and we still get to have two qualifiers per state!
I think local organisers would be in a better position to take care of improved local media coverage and advertising – therefore getting more competitors and spectators.

In 2012, ABT needs to increase participation not reduce it further. Please make more events more accessible (cheaper, closer, shorter, and at good times of the year!) If anglers are only going to have a shot at one local ABT qualifier, many will not bother.

Some of the top level guys can afford to travel, but look at how many have dropped out in 2011. I think Gold Coast was a perfect example of making an event inaccessible.

Make Breamin’ inclusive, not exclusive!
Cheers,
Matt

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by mojon » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:53 pm

I suppose this decision by ABT , is a result of the the general state of the economy, people commenting over entry fees, travel costs , time away from family & time required off work. In addition to the amount of Teams events as well, we are all becoming time poor!
The reduction of ABT events should see numbers of those participating the qualifiers swell. By reducing the quantity of events, we may see the numbers we saw a few years back, if memory serves me right, we used to get upwards of 60 boaters & non boaters competing at the Clarence( even though a SS ). This observation is my opinion after competing in the ABT for over 4 years, & in that time seeing dramatic changes.
I & a few friends had already made decisions regarding the events which we would drop for next year,due to our already full participation in teams events, & the Qualifiers were on top of the list. With the reduction of these events in the pipeline, it might change my mind & just do one qualifier.My mates might have similar opinions!
With the Teams Series , ( BETS, Gamma ) & Classics, bream fishing will always grow, It may need to have more TV air play, say on AFC ( which is already a kind of team fishing event).
Again this is only my opinion, coming from a ABT member who has participated in qualifiers & Super series over the last 4 years. Cheers MOJON.

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Re: ABT BREAM 2012

Post by nuzzy » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:20 pm

It sounds like to me that these decisions have been made for NSW and the rest of Aus has to fall in line.
How about this for a stat, this year there are 64 ABT event's be it qualifiers/finals/affiliate events with 29 of them (not including the 3 GTS finals TBA's) being held in NSW. No wonder the ABT are feeling the pinch, that averages out to more than one comp per fortnight just for NSW. Lets compare that to Vic where only 8 events were held this year and WA where there was only 7 events, that's one event approx. every 7 weeks. Teams events may be getting ever more popular in NSW but does the rest of Aus have to suffer just for one state????

If you ask me, i believe the number of event in NSW should be reduced and the rest of Aust left as is if the ABT is finding the work load too much.

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