Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

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boeny
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Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by boeny » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:35 pm

This should at least generate some lively discussion.


How about a boater who gets his bag ,but returns with a non boater that has a doughnut .... -100grams
A boater that brings back a" nonny" with his bag full of bream instead of cinnamon dusted orb..... +100grams ??

ducks
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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by ducks » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Personally I'd hate to think my inability to post a scoring fish would negatively affect the boater's I have had, desperately trying to find me a fish - even offering to give me their lure of choice when I've donutted. I'm sure that probably not all of the boaters are this generous but I doubt many of them set out deliberately wanting to hinder a NB anyway.

I think it would also maybe give the especially competitive folk a bit more incentive to cheat (or be less honest) It's one thing to help a NB, but you don't want a situation where a NB has a bad session and a boater is tempted to drop a fish in to the wrong well during an upgrade to save themself a penalty?

aussieweekender
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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by aussieweekender » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:34 pm

I would love to see a reward for the boaters that consistantly have their non boater score well. They could get points based on where there non boater is placed at the end of the day then totaled up over the weekend with both non boaters. I would be happy to put some more money in towards that as I go to these events to learn and so far all my boaters have been awesome and really helpfull.

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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by fire blood » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:16 pm

Not the greatest idea iv ever herd........geeeez.
Dan Walter

aussieweekender
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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by aussieweekender » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:30 am

To add to my earlier comment I definitely don't think you should start messing with someone's bag weight in my first comp I got two donuts and didn't care because I had two boaters that took the time to teach me they did not deserve any penalty and the next time I got fish because of what I learnt at the end of the day it is an individual comp not a team comp

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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by TheSaint » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:02 am

The guy who puts up his boat, all the running cost plus double the entry fee gets disadvantaged because his nonboater can't catch a legal fish??


This is just Dumb!

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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by Dodgyback » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:09 am

To be blunt....Stupid idea.

I kind of get disappointed when my non boaters get a doughnut,, but that's not my fault and I am pretty happy that many of my past non boatrs have got prizes.

That's enough for me !!
I still hate Flathead

Gillie
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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by Gillie » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:14 pm

Ha ha , no way! How about the person who catch's the fish gets their weight and the one who doesn't catch the fish gets what they deserve? Nothing! Be that boater or non boater, no need to mess with a system that works fine, by the way i liked the "chasing start on the weekend, a whole lot better than the reverse order" , i know off topic, but this topic is not worth continuing with! cheers Gillie

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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by cannonball » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:03 am

I wished you could be penalised for posting rubbish.

boeny
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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by boeny » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:03 pm

Firstly,i would like to thank "fireblood", "the saint" , "dodgyback" and "CANNONBALL" for some very constructive criticism......NOT!
If you havn't got anything positive to contribute to a disscusion or aren't prepared to offer explanation then why bother replying to a post ?............................

In my initial statement the 100gram penalty/reward was simply put up there for argument's sake.

Foolish as it seems now after reading the replys to this post i thought it would generate some healthy, constructive discussion regarding the benifits to our sport of having boaters that conduct themselves around ABT's motto..."who shares wins" ......as apposed to the "backboater".....

I truly believe the latter are very much in the minority group and as a whole the NB has nothing but positive experiences to take away from an ABT boater/non-boater event....

.........But,
recently a "friend " of mine competed in his third ABT event ,drawing a high profile, very successful boater for one of the days fishing .The experience was one he will
hope to forget rather than treasure.You see the boater took "backboating " to a whole new level ....it was a miserable 7hrs spent with a bloke he had always looked up to that not only hindered his ability to catch a single fish(ALL DAY) ,even when he had the start of a healthy bag himself,but he actually instructed him NOT to cast at certain times (very assertively)........If this was a one off you could put it down to the sometimes less than desirable, "highly competitive nature of some folk"...but no....out of the three events he has competed in (six days fishing) he has encounted this on three days from seperate,(again)"high profile very succsessful tournament anglers"......
Either my mate has had the most unlucky of draws or it is a situation that needs addressing....


........by the way im glad you liked the chasing start Gillie,totally off topic i know but ......???????????????????????????????????????

Steve Morgan
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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by Steve Morgan » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:41 pm

boeny,

I understand the reasoning, but there are a few practical reasons where it might fall down - first is that ABT runs 'spare' slots that we inevitably use for 'breakdown' situations. This is the same reason that 'shared weight' events are logistically difficult - uneven numbers and why ABT does it at the Grand Final only.

Every event of the national BREAM calendar apart from the 8 Qualifiers and the Australian Open have a teams format where both anglers work together and have an equal chance. If what an angler values in a tournament experience is a 50:50 shot of hooking a fish, then Teams is the suitable format.

It's the nature of the event that the non-boater has a smaller chance of catching a fish than a boater. In fact, Australian NB rules are very lenient compared, for instance, with the FLW Tour co-angler rules (that state that the non-boater can't be on the front deck or cast in front of the back deck at any time). I'll often invite a NB up the front if I'm paralleling a bank and there's no other casting options, but will wonder at the same if that's giving my co-angler an advantage over the rest of the co-angler field?

The best non-boaters I have fished with are those who embrace that they're at the back of the boat and are constantly thinking about presentations to target fish that the boater is missing. These guys cast what they're confident in and they'll present in spots they notice that the boater is missing. They know that they're competing against everyone else that has a similar disadvantage.

The event this last weekend was tough. Plenty of boaters and co-anglers hauled water for two days for no results. We've all done it. Jeff won the co-anglers section after a Day 1 donut.

Personally, I think that a boater has enough variables to contend with without the added pressure of 'guiding' the non-boater if that's required. Most boaters I know will offer the use of tackle/baits and as much advice as the non-boaters want. Some of the non-boaters don't need it, as they're super competent and confident.

If there's a boater who needs reminding that there's a second angler on the boat, though, maybe a quiet (or even anonymous word) to me or any of the ABT staff will help us to help them realise that there's the possibility of being more considerate.

Nothing wrong with debate, though!

SM
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boeny
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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by boeny » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:42 am

Thankyou Steve,

Due to my inexperience,there were several points you made that i hadn't considered.

It was never a 50/50 shot at the title i was after ,just a fair chance at doing my best .

There will be no names "named" but hopefully a couple of boaters have spent some time reflecting over the last few of days,
as that was all that was ever intended.

Thanks to you and ABT for doing all the hard yards.....can't wait for the next one .......

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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by stompy » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:50 pm

Boney,

Your original comment was for argument sake, I can't see how you imagined you were going to get any sort positive vibe from this one. I actual thought it was a gee up.

If you are after a fair change of doing your best, then turning up in your own boat is the only option. You won't get to pick where to fish and you are rarely going to get first crack at most honey holes as a non-boater.

If you are wondering how many boaters out there reflecting on how they could have managed to get a better bag for the non - boaters over the weekend, the answer is probably not many. Although I bet there are a few that are thinking geez I wish I caught that 1.41kg fish instead of my non-boater.

Lots of people travel a long way and spend plenty bucks to have only one or too shots at making the GF and winning some cash. and the reality is that the non - boater is rarely the priority on a boat. I think most boaters are good guys that treat their non-boaters well, but its generally just a blind date :lol:

I know I always let invite my non - boater up the front, which would give them an advantage over other non-boaters. Except they are fishing with me which is usually a disadvantage in the first place. But that decision is always in the hands of the Boater and if the fishing is tough, they are going to have first crack.

There has been some discussion about a 3 fish non boater limit, that has some merit, but I think it was not taken on due to the general non - boating community prefering the 5 fish limit. It would be a bummer is you gat a stack of fish on day one and have to throw heaps back only to get zip the next day and finish heaps further down the score board.

Cheers,

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Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by aussieweekender » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:49 pm

Steve, Some very interesting comments there. I have nothing but respect for the boaters I have had they have all been awesome and given me the best chance of catching fish. I think you have touched on an interesting point. It would be great to hear what people feel are some of the unwritten etiquette that you like to see from your non boater. For instance if my boater hooks a fish I will pull my line in fast to make sure my line does not get in the way. I can also be ready with the net then although so far most boaters like to net their own fish. I will also always let the boater cast first unless instructed otherwise. I was not aware of casting in front of the back casting deck being a no no but will remember for next time. Any others

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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by Steve Morgan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:07 pm

aw,

No rules about where to cast in ABT, but it's worth discussing it with your boater. I really don't mind where my NB casts so long as it's not across my line - and all of the side of the boat opposite to the side I'm fishing is fair game.

If you talk about it at the start of the day, then no-one's in the dark.

If a line is not right in the firing line, I have no problems leaving it in (theirs or mine), as the best time to hook a second fish is when there's already one fighting on the line.


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cannonball
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Re: Who shares wins,who dosn't...loses???

Post by cannonball » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:15 pm

How about if your non boater finishes in the top ten and gets a prize or wins the $500 big bream prize and the boaters he/she fished with for the weekend dont finish in the money. They should split their $500 big bream prize with the boater who took them to the spot to catch it and split their prize pack with both boaters. I for one dont take any petrol money when it is offered. The only time i have not had it offered to me was when the non boater got a dough nut .This person couldn't seem to accept this is a fact of tournament fishing. Nearly every non boater I have had appreciated the experience whether he caught fish or not. Its about being a good sport and having a great day with a person you may not know but do get to know in the preceding 7 hours. Thats catching fish or not. By penalising anyone, boater or non boater for not catching fish is a kick in the guts when a person has had poor fishing day. Its enough to turn people away from the sport not encourage people into it. Like i said I am all for penalising someone for posting rubbish. I do put my name to what i think is right and my name is Wayne REED aka Cannonball.

Boater Purchase of boat (big dollars)
paying insurance (getting dearer by the year dollars)
paying boat rego (robbing dollars)
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giving of lure or lures to a non boater for the day to keep (generosity dollars)


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I am ever so grateful when i am offered a ride in someone elses boat and never ever complain whether i catch a fish or not.

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