New Measuring System for BREAM Events

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Simon Goldsmith
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New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Simon Goldsmith » Tue May 25, 2010 3:35 pm

BREAMers,

This should get tongues wagging. Give it a read and let me know what you think.

With the new larger bream size limit in Queensland this year and the previous introduction of one in Victoria in recent years ABT is looking at some of the options available that may ease the transition into the new larger sizes.

As we know catching legal bream in QLD with the old 23cm was a hard ask at times, with it now at 25cm the search for legal fish come tournament time will more than likely be even harder.

In past Tweed events we’ve used the 23cm-fork, 25cm-tip length measurement to compile with both the old QLD size limit and the NSW 25cm limit. This was an option we toyed with as an across the board limit for QLD, but in reality it’s a messy option to work with and isn’t the best way to go.

One we believe is more workable is to scrap to the fork length measurement that we’ve used in the past and instead adopt a tip length, plus 1cm measurement. This would be mean that in QLD ABT would measure 26cm (25cm tip length as dictated by QLD Fisheries) to the tip as the legal size for a fish.

Why would we do this?

Well let’s look at the reason why we originally measured to the fork to help with the understanding.

ABT adopted the fork measurement rule as a way of ensuring that all fish anglers had in their possession measured longer than the state regulated size limit where measurements are taken to the tip. For example a 23cm fork length fish measures about 26cm to the tip, give or take depending on the individual fish. Therefore a just legal ABT fish is AOK with your local fisheries officer.

This security reasoning is the same reason why we’re suggesting a fork length, plus 1cm size limit.

What’re the benefits in changing a system that already seems to be working, well mainly to get more anglers weighing in fish during the transitional phase of the new size limits. In coming years when the size and year classes catch up to the new size limits the need for what we’re proposing will be reduced as the fish get bigger.

We’re thinking of trialing the new measurement system at the Tweed round in July to see how it goes. If it works well and is well received by anglers then we may look at introducing it across the board in all states in 2011.

So here’s your chance let us know what you think of the idea of the new tip length measurement and perhaps trialing it at the Tweed.

Just remember this new system wont change who wins a tournament, the bigger fish will still win, it just means that more anglers will weigh more fish, and more anglers will head home happy.
Regards,

Simon Goldsmith
ABT Tournament Director
simon@fishingmonthly.com.au
(07) 3387 0888
0416 068 386

seamonkey
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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by seamonkey » Tue May 25, 2010 4:37 pm

Simon

In the event of an asymmetrical tail, which tip counts? Longest or shortest?

smky

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by UdlMan » Tue May 25, 2010 5:00 pm

Sorta sounds OK, but why don't you just make it minimum 26cm Tip length. You are still covered regarding the new regs and it should allow the 24-25cm fork to be covered.

Brad.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Dodgyback » Tue May 25, 2010 5:44 pm

Simon
As we are already used to the fork length method, why not just increase the QLD rounds to 24cm fork . These fish will still be over the state regs of 25 to tail and keep the measuring method as the tried and true fork length.
By all means trial the new method at the Tweed and see how it goes.
Cheers

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by fishconnect » Tue May 25, 2010 7:09 pm

ABT
We’ll catch whatever sized fish you tell us to. An across the board size limit would be very advantageous.

Jay

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by fishconnect » Tue May 25, 2010 7:10 pm

ABT,
We’ll catch whatever sized fish you tell us to. An across the board size limit would be very advantageous.

Jay

www.fishconnect.com.au

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Simon Goldsmith » Tue May 25, 2010 7:25 pm

Brad 26cm to the tip is what we're proposing.
Regards,

Simon Goldsmith
ABT Tournament Director
simon@fishingmonthly.com.au
(07) 3387 0888
0416 068 386

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by UdlMan » Tue May 25, 2010 8:29 pm

[quote="Simon Goldsmith"]Brad 26cm to the tip is what we're proposing.[/quote]

No worries, I am all for it then.

Brad.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by stompy » Tue May 25, 2010 9:06 pm

Simon,

Worth a try, don't see any reason why it wouldn't be well recieved if it was used across all waterways. Would it be 26cm to 1 tip or both? Not trying to be a smart arse, often one tip is a little lomder than the other.

Good to see new thoughts put up for public discussion

Regards

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Mick » Tue May 25, 2010 10:27 pm

I think it will just cause more problems at the weigh in. The fork is a simple location to measure as it seldomly changes except possibly on a very deformed fish. When you start measuring the tip of the tail, you could run in to a lot of different variations. I've seen tails (Filaments), that are curled, but when straightened out and held down would make the overall length longer, then there are tails that have only a few filaments longer than the rest of the tail section, so does one single filament consitute the tail length or do you need to put a number on it, live well damage to tails. You will also get those who complain that their fish were measured with the tail in a different position to others. If you dont catch any fish so be it, a 25cm form for NSW,QLD, is a much easier option.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by dazzas4x4 » Tue May 25, 2010 10:34 pm

keep it 25cm to the fork its the easiest way to measure

just means more weigh in bags will be available hahaha

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by dazzas4x4 » Tue May 25, 2010 10:35 pm

simon
keep it 25cm to the fork its the easiest way to measure

just means more weigh in bags will be available

cheers
daz

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by bear » Tue May 25, 2010 11:48 pm

Sounds good, one common way to measure means less confusion, especially as it changes from state to state. WA measures to the tip. Good move ABT.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by ledge n » Wed May 26, 2010 9:36 am

Sounds good to me,

although, you boaters would want to stop cutting my bream tails so they dont get mixed up. LOL


Ledge n


.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Wazza » Wed May 26, 2010 10:08 am

I support Mick's (Dodgyback) case for a 24cm fork length measurement, (or a 25cm fork length measurement), as I believe either of these would be an easier transition from the previous 23cm fork limit and allow measurements to stay far more accurate. Both would obviously satisfy state regulations of 25cm tip length.

I honestly think a tip measurement will cause many more problems. A few things to consider are that: people trim tips to distinguish fish; tips are often irregular, damaged or may have even been trimmed before, whereas the fork of the tail is usually very obvious; At weigh ins there could potentially be arguments relating to the point at which the tail is completely flattened, and where this makes the tip? - I have seen many people use many different ways of measuring 'tip' length; would a thicker ruler or brag style tape be required to accomodate the tip measurement more accuratley when the tail is flattened?

They'll all shrink in the livewell anyway, so whatever system you go with, I'll be measuring at least twice!

My 2c.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Finno » Wed May 26, 2010 6:56 pm

quote, a 23 cm fork length is 26 cm to the tip give or take.

If this is the case why is there a need to change. I can see much more drama with a tip measurement than the fork. Everyone is used to the fork measurement and i also believe that it is the most consistant measurement without to many variations other than a split fork. The tip has far to many variations. you can squeese tail together to get different measurements, this could cause major back lashes and anglers going home unhappy instead of happy. AS it is said there is cut tails, bent tails, curled tails. I think it would be hard to distinguish a general measurement using this system.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Tea Bag » Wed May 26, 2010 7:08 pm

I think its worth a try Simon. The last two years in the Gippsland ABT's since the size went to 28CM there have been lots of 27.5cm fish caught. I think if anglers could weigh these fish in you would continue to get a higher participation rate as they would feel as though they have acomplished something by weighing in fish instead of doughnuting.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Duffy1 » Wed May 26, 2010 10:47 pm

I am in favour with sticking with the fork measurement. If 23cm fork measurement relates to a 26cm tip length I see no need to change as it's allready +1cm over which ABT stipulates. If taking it to 24cm FL is what it takes to keep ahead of future trends than move it up.
As it has been said allready by others that the tip has to many variables that can affect ones measurement so why make it more confusing.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by HookedWA » Thu May 27, 2010 10:55 am

My view is why mess with a proven failsafe method of measuring bream on the stick.As many have eluded to there are far to many variations when measuring over all fish length.The old "swallow tailing" of fish was common practise in WA when events were run to over all size of fish...and yes before anyone gets upset in the WA ranks l saw people doing it on my boat.It is so much quicker and less stressful for a bream to be measured to the fork whilst on a boat in rough conditions too...welfare of catch should be put at the top of everyones list in imo.
The fact that some people are getting deflated fishing ego's in competition is not of a concern...the dreaded donut catches us all at times.Just buck up and get on with trying to catch your next bag of fish.Up the size to 24cm fork length and sort the men from the mice or woman for that matter.
Bags of fish would still be achievable and just heighten the importance of making every cast count.WA is currently using the 25cm fork rule to measure fish and as yet lve yet to hear anyone sobbing about lack of fish...lots of rats but no sobbing.Trial or no trial l just see this as the best way to measure fish.
JMO anyways.

Steve

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Steve Morgan » Fri May 28, 2010 12:05 pm

Here's my take on it.

• QLD and VIC in particular have some issues where an increased legal size limit means that there's a gap between the size of the stock and the new legal limit. In a few years, this gap will narrow as the stock as a whole grows to the new size limit. Remember that currently, a tournament legal fish can be up to 3 cm over the actual legal limit.

• Measurement to the tip will be the same as a fisheries officer would do it - pinch the tail tips together.

• ABT would adopt a (legal size) + 1 cm standard - maybe in just the fisheries with an increased size or maybe across the board - depending on feedback.

• The 1cm margin would mean two things. Firstly, if your fish ends up going a mm or two under, it was still a legal (according to fisheries legislation) capture and ABT could just release that fish and exclude it from the bag weight. Secondly, it means that if you brought in a fish that was >1cm under, then ABT would have to DQ your whole bag, because you'd have been carrying an undersized fish around each day.

• It would very rarely actually influence the pointy end of an event. It would moreso tighten up the results in the middle of the field.

• It comes down to if us - as competitors - want to finish in the same position with a full bag, rather than an empty bag?

• ABT doesn't really mind either way. Less fish to weigh = an easier tournament to run, but more fish = happier competitors.

Think about some variations on a theme .... maybe non-boaters could be 'tip length' and boaters could be 'fork length'? Another way of stepping up when you make the change to a boater?

Worthy of discussion, I think.

Cheers,

SM
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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by dazzas4x4 » Fri May 28, 2010 3:13 pm

Think about some variations on a theme .... maybe non-boaters could be 'tip length' and boaters could be 'fork length'? Another way of stepping up when you make the change to a boater?

not a bad idea either steve

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by dyno355 » Fri May 28, 2010 9:31 pm

I say leave it as is. It's not going to make any difference to your placing. Would you feel better for coming 48th with 5 fish than what you would for coming 48th with 3 fish???? At the end of the day we are all fishing the same conditions for the same size fish at the same time.

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by Finno » Fri May 28, 2010 10:02 pm

just have to say that i dont like the idea of a tip measurement, fork is the way tournaments have and should be measured thats why it has always cleared regulations even when a QLD size of 23 was adopted in the tweed which is nsw regs at 25. ABT should be able to adjust a fork length to suit for every state or each river system to suit for the regs, anglers and the public supporters, which it has done for the past in the tweed.

Steve i think its crazy to measure one way for the non boater and another for the boater, there should be consistancy in measurement of fish

I do belive that alot more people should have a say on this topic, even the top end of town. It can affect everyone at times eg Dizzy would have been measuring alot of fish last year so say what you feel should be.

sorry Diz first thing that came to mind

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by ling » Sat May 29, 2010 6:40 am

Stick to the fork as it works now

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Re: New Measuring System for BREAM Events

Post by fishyman » Sat May 29, 2010 3:59 pm

just keep it at fork length and make it 24 or 25

been working for years why change it

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