3 bream limit for Non Boaters

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s9500
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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by s9500 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:53 pm

My 2 bobs worth from fishing two comps as a beginner (non-boater) - Bag limit to stay at 5.

Shane J, Stephen T, David M and Scott L ALL gave me an enormous amount of opportunities by the way they maneuvering the boat to allow me to cast ahead. Boater knowledge of the territory to be fished is immensely important and does affect the numbers bagged and the ability to upgrade. My problem amounted to inexperience, lure/plastic selection, choice of weights etc etc. Its a no brainer to know that most, if not all anglers would be disappointed with 0 to 5 fish for 2 days of effort. For me its all about attitude, enjoying the moment and observing, listening and learning from the experienced.

Hey Sonney,(sonic) if you get to read this, you have beaten me twice now - its my season to turn the tide next year and maybe score quality fishing gear as prizes or even qualify for a final.

Just Breamin
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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by Just Breamin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:31 pm

Great suggestion Steve as i don't expect boaters to always put their non boater onto fish as they are the one's fishing for the money.

fishyman
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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by fishyman » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:11 pm

ill add in a bit here

if you keep it at 5 it makes it more open, which some say is a bad thing

but i know i do like still knowing i could get a good place if im sitting 30th overnight if i get a good 5 fish bag the next day

chrisfish
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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by chrisfish » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:23 pm

fishyman, if its a 3 bag limit and you have a bad day one you wont have as much weight to chase down. :P
Whether its 3 or 5 you still have to catch them. If you give it a go and it is a dismal failure I am pretty sure
that it will be scrapped, if you dont give it a go how will you know whats better.
Chris H
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fishyman
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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by fishyman » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:31 pm

yeah fair enough but i still like the idea of 5 fish for NB

in saying that though, hopefully i wont be fishing another comp other than the GF as a non boater haha

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by The Iceman » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:41 am

It may be too big a job but if someone would table the nonboater results of all tournaments and see how many 5 bags there were and also see how many tournies were won by 5 bag limits and how many 5 bag limits were in the placings over the two days Im betting not too many Im sure I said to Scottie T at Lake Mac I would be happy with three each day as I believe that would put me right up there and he agreed So my vote would be for a three bag limit for nonboaters
On a side note shared weight tournies if they are ever entertained again should probably be a 7 or 8 daily bag limit
too cool to stress

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by tasbreamer » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:21 pm

I think that a 3 fish limit would be a good idea for the majority of reasons already pointed out. Closer weigh ins was the main reason for dropping classic limits to five and that seems to have been embraced by everyone. I don't think any non boater should feel second rate, but embrace the opportunity to fish with some of the best anglers in the country. After all they aren't fishing against their boater, just all the other nb's.
Cheers
Craig

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by seamonkey » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:44 pm

Should have tried it at Glenelg this weekend. :?

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by tomdeer » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:01 am

If it had been trialed on the Glenelg R, a great non-boater who was ahead of the pack by a country mile on day 1 may not have ended up winning. Just a comment for keeping it at 5.

However, a 3 fish limit may even up the field. Although not a given.

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by Barra » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:11 pm

The fact about comps is that the shorter they are and the fewer fish you need, the easier it is to get lucky. The longer they run, the more the pack will spread and leaders will break away. The trick with running comps is the get the right compromise between the two. Interestingly when we changed the Windamere Golden Classic from an unlimited number of fish to small bags, the same teams are still around the top - with enough other teams also having a sniff to keep it interesting.

It's been a long time since I was a non-boater but people are people and I think most non-boaters would enjoy a tighter field and the chance of doing well that would come with it.

All things considered about the non-boater side of things I think that it at the very least it is worth a try!

Ian

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by justcrusin » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:12 pm

I fished as a non boater in a few events over the last couple of years, and i fish the yak tournaments too. I reckon a three fish limit is ok, the good fisho's will still get bigger fish an be able to upgrade. They may not win by as much but they will still win. There will be instances when it could work both ways but for the most part the better anglers will still use better techniques, catch bigger fish an come out on top.

I go with the others that said give it a go on a couple of events an see.

Cheers Dave

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by MickR » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:00 pm

Fished many events as a NB.

I say trial the three fish limit, in most situations the non-boater is quite disadvantaged, even if it's just the location being fished, usually you have half the chances of taking fish or the numbers of fish that the Boater has up front.

More competition can only be a good thing, you should still be sweating at weigh in with 2 limits, not safe to be top ten just cause you weighed ten tiddlers as i did a few years back at a GC ABT event, i really didn't fish any better than at other events where i failed to get the ten but got half a dozen nice ones.

I don't think the Boater should have any onus on putting the NB onto fish, i like to just let them do what they have to and help them as much as I can, just netting fish for a Boater who is onto a good bite takes away from the NB's time fishing.

Given this is my thinking when i am out there, i would love to fish in a shared weight event, i reckon the bags would be closer just like what happened in the BIBS event, and skills and knowledge of everyone would increase also because the 2 in the boat would work as a team to work out a pattern quicker.

Mick Randall.

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by roosterman » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:06 pm

seems to me that the underlying thread is 3 fish bag makes it easier. keep it at 5 it makes bagging out a whole lot more satisfying if i may steer the thread in a different direction for a minute id like to see the names of boater non boater pairings posted for each comp so we can see whose fished with who.

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by dale m » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:38 pm

S.M..... What's your opinion on the debate thus far???
Cheers Dale

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by Steve Morgan » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:01 pm

Dale,

See opening post!

I like shared weight or 3-fish for NBs.

Usually the more successful non-boaters like a 5-fish limit and rather non-shared weight events.

Drawing a 'gun' boater has its advantages and disadvantages for a non-boater. Sure, they might be on fish, but they also may not leave many behind.

SM
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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by Mick » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:29 pm

The other option and I think I mentioned this a couple of years ago when this discussion was done previously is to run the 5/3 combined weight option. I forget which US Bass tour runs it, but it seems a good system with both anglers needing to work together to get their 5(boater) 3 (nonboater) limit for the combined 8 fish weight.

There are a lot of boxes ticked with this option, both anglers still need to catch their limit, the non boater only needs to catch 3, both persons will need to work together for best results. It would be good to see it trialed at one event, if it doesnt work out then scrap it, nothing ventured nothing gained.

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by Steve Morgan » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:42 pm

Mick,

They ran 5/3, but not combined weight.

Shared weight events there don't allocate fish per angler.

Cheers,

SM
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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by Dodgyback » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:03 am

Hope this doesn't start anything.

The share weight comments haven't attracted any negative posts ,yet
Maybe it can be revisited ?
I still hate Flathead

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by stunt midget » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:37 am

this shared weight might actually help you Mick you might snag a hotshot non boater could help

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by The Iceman » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:48 am

stunt midget wrote:this shared weight might actually help you Mick you might snag a hotshot non boater could help
Mick had a hotshot nonboater at Taree this year who helped him get his 5 by clearing away all the bycatch :roll:
too cool to stress

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by ledge n » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:03 am

as a two year Non boater I have only bagged(5) once, I have got 3 on many occasions.
from racks to walls from deep to shallow I have never felt disadvantaged. 3 times I fished racks at Taree and 3 times up the front of the boat. top boaters (Wishy, Britto, Webster).
back to the Question , please leave at 5. it is a personal challenge that keeps me coming back.
I like the shared weight concept, I like the cash for top 3 non boater concept. i like ABT as is on a whole.
now AFC has changed maybe the non boater AOY could be picked in an AFC team boat?
NOT A HIJACK.

5 fish for me.

Tony

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by stuartb » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:58 pm

Mmmm, Great Topic Ah !

I too like the idea of a shared weight where the boater & non boater have to perform as a team.

At the moment, I'm sure most boaters feel kind of obliged to help the non boaters catch a few, which puts them off their game a bit and somewhat at a disadvantage to those hard nose boaters who expect the non boater to sit at the back and shut up whilst at the same time I'm sure alot of non boaters dont want to put suggestions forward and actively participate as they feel they are just there to fish silently & observe from the rear.

I love the exisitng teams events because they are easier for the sponsors to promote and the general public to follow - in terms of boat advertising, matching advertising on uniforms, websites etc . but also because of the team ethos that is ...mateship and working together towards a common goal. Surely a shared weight event would also take the pressure off the boater to keep fish up to the non boater and would help take the pressure off the newbie non boaters, while still allowing the gun non boater a real chance to contribute.

It sounds like the shared weight system has been trialled before, how did it go ?

I think a shared weight system has some great merits or leave the limit at 5 and 5.

Cheers

Stuart
Last edited by stuartb on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by Steve Morgan » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:11 pm

Shared weight was trialled at a few events a few years ago.

Was very unpopular with the more skilled non-boaters who got upset about the potential of getting beaten by someone who may have caught fewer fish.

What's the feedback from Grand Finals? They are shared weight? How do non-boaters like them?

Cheers,

SM
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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by Duffy1 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:48 pm

Having fished as a non boater for a number of years now I have had full bags and empty ones. I have noticed on average in most comps around 5 to 10 non boaters will get thier 5 fish. 3 to 5 anglers will weigh in 4 and that again will have 3 fish weighed in and 10% to 15% of the starting field will donut for the two days of fishing.
The 3 fish format would see over a third of the field bag out at comps so it would come down to grams to secure a win or a top ten finish. Far more exciting to watch at the end of the day. Keeping it close is what competition is all about. In the end being 3 or 5 fish limit you will still get a winner but with a 3 fish limit it will make the score board at the tent a more popular spot for non boaters to keep checking.
As a non boater you do fish a fair bit of second hand water but that comes with the territory but the advantages of picking up helpfull tips and learning by watching how a skillfull boater goes about filling his bag has its own rewards and down the track and if applied making you a better angler for it.
Give it a trial run on a few comps excluding super series and see what the feed back is. If it doesn't work so what, there is nothing to loose by trying.
In regards to the shared weight system for non boaters I don't see any merit in doing that at all. You could have two days where you don't land a legal fish yet have your boaters brain them and have you win the non boater section with out landing a legal fish. It's a hollow victory in my books and shows no reflection on ones performance. It comes more down to luck of the draw not skill.
Trial a 3 fish limit for non boaters and see what happens.

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Re: 3 bream limit for Non Boaters

Post by dizzzy » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:27 pm

NO SHARED WEIGHT EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you want to share your weight fish the teams comps and leave the individual comps alone.

if it is such a problem for NB don't have them put observers on the boats.

this is a national individual angling competition where the bar should be as high as it can be so the best angler win's every time not the luckiest.

if shared weight ever returned i would stop fishing and go back to playing golf again.
and yes i won the GF and if it was not shared weight i might not of won it - some times you just get lucky and shared weight is all about luck not skill.
i got the best first day NB draw at the GF and Jordy proved it by putting in a 1.4kg monster in the well.
you either have a team format all the time or an individual format all the time, not try to mix them.

wait to you see the night mare the new team format for AFC is going to cause.

boater 5 fish
non boater 5 fish
and bring back the 10 fish bag for the mega bucks.
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