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Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:50 pm
by Steve Morgan
Guys,

I've received this warning from Daiwa Australia about some dodgy Exist reels doing the rounds. Daiwa reckons that they've experiences around 30 of them. Make sure if you're buying a second hand Exist that you see the receipts from original purchase in Australia - otherwise you're taking a big gamble!

Cheers,

SM

"Just a quick warning about something that has come to our attention in the last few months regarding high end Daiwa reels being built from non genuine parts, parts from different reels, flat out wrong parts that have been altered to fit or parts completely left out.

The main type of reel being done is 2500R size Exist which means they could be being sold as 2500, 2506, 2508, 2508R, 3000 or 3012 as any of those spools will fit on a 2500R body. The reels are being sold through internet forums like this as well as on eBay from the original seller and unfortunatly once people realise they have been ripped off they are trying to sell them on.

The reels appear to to just be run of the mill used reels with average wear on the outside. The problems are mainly on the inside where parts like the main shaft and the oscillating gear are the wrong size and are from a different reel. The main shafts tend to look like they were bent at one time and have been straightened again by being hammered flat and have obvious tooling marks on them which make them rough while oscillating. The oscillating gears are most probably from a 3000 size reel which is actually slightly bigger than a 2500R and causes the spool to make contact with the rotor on the down stroke. Parts that may not seem vitally important such as the washer under the oscillating gear or the washers between the pinion gear and bearing are simply missing. This may not seem like much,but high end reels work to very fine tolerences and a tenth of a mm can make a big difference to how a reel feels. The click leaf spring and holder are from a Certate and are on a slightly longer spool metal which can mean the reels drag is comprimised. The clutch cam retainers are completely wrong and have had their eyelets cut with pliers to fit the body. Some of the reels have drag knobs and rear covers from a Steez which are a different colour.

All this gives the impression that these reels have been put together using junk parts with the intention of selling them and there have been well over thirty of them sold in the last 12 months that are known about.

In many cases it is not cost effective to fix a reel with these kind of problems. Fixing can run into hundreds of dollars.

This is simply a warning to be careful when buying any second hand gear especially sight unseen over the internet. The vast majority of sellers should be happy to answer questions and provide detailed photos of more expensive items."

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:03 pm
by LostNearBribie
Thanks Steve...
I just bought a 1003 from a guy on BreamMaster.
Fingers crossed.

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:45 pm
by Steve Morgan
From what I gather, anything that has come from Daiwa Aus and a local retailer is fine and is covered by warranty if anything is awry.

Exists on EBay - and then people who have been dudded and are trying to resell them - are apparently the worry.

Cheers!

SM

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:52 am
by bsissins
Hi Everyone,
The concern has noting to do with Exists that are bought through Daiwa Australia stockists, it concerns sales through ebay, chatboards etc that are second hand. We have repaired at least 30 now and most of these we have been verbally abused for as the reels take time and alot of money to fix. Up till now the Service Dept has been dealing with it but I'm completely sick of hearing whining anglers who bought secondhand products blaming Daiwa for badly performing products, in the end I'll deal with some of these issues and people who know me will attest that I'll be brutally honest towards these customers...you should have bought new reels, its your problem confront the original seller and blame them not us! This also goes for reels purchased overseas, there is no warranty and many overseas models have different specifications, Daiwa Australia commonly change parts to suit our conditions. The other concern is anglers selling Daiwa reels with warranties, second hand does not have manufacturer warranty, there is no such thing and you can check with the Consumer Affairs Dept, we are not liable.

Bradley Sissins
Daiwa Australia
Marketing Manager

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:20 am
by Steve Morgan
There ya go - straight from Daiwa.

Buy from your local Daiwa stockist and you'll be backed up 100%.

Buy OS - or second hand OS - and take your chances.

Cheers!

SM

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:41 am
by LostNearBribie
Thanks guys.
The reel is on it's way to you for a service anyway.

Red.

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:56 pm
by Kanfish
I've now had three reels for service with absolutely no internals whatsoever. Just empty shells with a bit of weight inside. All of these were high end Daiwa's purchased overseas. You are taking a big chance.

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:44 am
by Lazzylure
I was 'considering' some ebay Daiwa reels, glad I read this first :shock:
Buy from your local Daiwa stockist and you'll be backed up 100%.
That's the best way to do it.

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:39 pm
by Mick
bsissins wrote:Hi Everyone,
The concern has noting to do with Exists that are bought through Daiwa Australia stockists, it concerns sales through ebay, chatboards etc that are second hand. We have repaired at least 30 now and most of these we have been verbally abused for as the reels take time and alot of money to fix. Up till now the Service Dept has been dealing with it but I'm completely sick of hearing whining anglers who bought secondhand products blaming Daiwa for badly performing products, in the end I'll deal with some of these issues and people who know me will attest that I'll be brutally honest towards these customers...you should have bought new reels, its your problem confront the original seller and blame them not us! This also goes for reels purchased overseas, there is no warranty and many overseas models have different specifications, Daiwa Australia commonly change parts to suit our conditions. The other concern is anglers selling Daiwa reels with warranties, second hand does not have manufacturer warranty, there is no such thing and you can check with the Consumer Affairs Dept, we are not liable.

Bradley Sissins
Daiwa Australia
Marketing Manager


I find this a very poorly worded response from a representative of a company. I agree fully with the content of the post, if you buy a reel over seas, especially a second hand one then the responsibility is yours. It surprises me people are even trying to claim warranty on second hand offshore junk. But to refer to people as whining anglers, because they have purchased a dud product and probably out of pocket several hundred dollars is a very poor choice of words. That same whining angler may have been a daiwa fan for years and spent several thousand dollars on local products.

I had recently looked at several reels for some close inshore work and after much deliberation, I had decided on a pair of SLT50W’s, both of which would have been purchased locally, as I wouldn’t sent that amount of cash to an offshore ebayer. But after reading that response and being big fan of customer service, I have decided to go with reels from another manufacturer, as I would certainly hate to upset the daiwa service department and be labelled a “whiner”, if my locally purchased product was faulty. I have no allegiance to any company and have numerous daiwa products spanning probably 30 years, but I would be very hesitant to purchase another one after reading the attitude daiwa Aus, has to Australian anglers.

Service departments and customer service areas of companies are initially contacted due to problems and issues, that is the reason for their existence, I would guess there would be a large amout of "whiners" calling. I have the utmost admiration for companies that offer both good service and helpful advice for consumers, even during times when the consumers are pushing the boundaries. I have nothing but contempt for companies that belittle consumers and I find it quite amusing when it is done in the public realm. I know people who are employed by large companies to check and double check public announcements to ensure the message is simple to understand, easily received and most importantly, not offensive to the consumer, obviously daiwa need to do some recruiting.

As for me, being the average Australian consumer, I think I will stick to sending my reel repairs to a location in Taren Point.

Any one know if they service daiwa reels there ?

Mick Passau

Australian Consumer

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:55 pm
by RichP
Mick
How would you word it then ? Especially if you are trying to run a business and half the day you are getting phone calls from people that have tried to save a few bucks and have been dudded and are abusing you for it.AS he stated they were fixing them at a cost.Personally i would hate to wait for my reels to be serviced because they are trying to fix someones reels that they have brought overseas and expect warranty.And then have the hide to abuse them.
From personal experience I have been looked after quiet well and i have no affilation with them except i buy mine stuff here in Aus.
As Brad has stated he dont beat around the bush. He tells it how it is. At the end of the day truth hurts, But it is the truth.

Just my two cents worth.

Rich

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:51 pm
by bsissins
Hi Mick,
Sorry you took offence to the 'whining" part, I meant it in a broad sense that anglers who buy these faulty products blame it on us. I take offence to anglers who ring up and verbally abuse me because I won't fix their overseas purchased reel under warranty and believe me I get this nearly every single day. I am the only one from a local company putting myself on the line over this issue, no one else does, if it offends you I'm sorry but I'm just warning consumers of potential problems so they avoid having to shell out more money to fix a reel.
Bradley

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:03 pm
by Mick
Rich,

I would doubt there is any company on the planet that does not receive abuse from disgruntled people, but it is the measure of a company and how they deal with it, that sets them apart from the others and keeps them in good standing with the consumer. Displaying a high degree of professionalism, but still getting the message across is a very easy task to accomplish.

Problems with internet reels is nothing new, it has been happening for years, with people trying to hit up local distributors with problems purchased over the net. It is obvious daiwa have identified an area of concern relating to a particular model which needed to be addressed, which the initial post did. Name calling is school kid stuff and as you say ‘Calling it how it is”, may sound great, but when representing a company, it is a very poor work ethic to adopt.

This is just the opinion of one person, who not only looks at a product, but the company behind it.

Brad, no reason to apologise to me, you probably helped me out on making a reel choice much easier.

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:13 pm
by Beevor
ShMick...

What's with all the sensitivity?

Nothing wrong with calling the odd disgruntled customer a 'whiner' IMO - especially if they've tried to save a few bucks and potentially purchase an inferior product. More fool them. I've been in the same situation myself, but it wasn't Daiwa's fault! I had no-one else to blame but myself. Besides, I think Brad proved a point - as all you've done is complain about it!

It baffles me to think that an individual can get their knickers in a knot over a 'whining' comment, which wasn't even directed at you - and then turn around and say.. "I'm going to the competitor to purchase my reels from now on". Get a grip and stop being so politically impervious. The internet is turning men into little girls.

I've had nothing but great service from Daiwa Australia, and will continue to purchase their product not because of their 'attitude towards Australians' but because of their elite craftmanship and reliability.

Beevor

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:47 am
by breamsol
so....
basically when buying a 2nd hand reel, there's really no point checking if the reel was locally purchased or brought from OS since there'd be no warranty anyway.

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:56 am
by Nguy
Let,s face it, the reason people buy from over seas is that the price of the high end reels here are over the top, i will take the risk and continue to buy from o/s when i can get 2 high end reels for the price of 1 here, with the strong Aust dollar we should be seeing the price fall ?, i for one would love to buy from a local but daiwa has a fixed price and you cant even talk them down or the retailer risks loosing there products, i can't justify spending $1,000 on an exist here when you can buy from a reputable retailer o/s and save hundreds, we are in a globle market now and people will buy were they get the best bang for there buck, if you get a DUD then its not daiwas fault dont take it out on them, just my 2 cents.

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:06 pm
by aussiebasser
Nguy,
That's obviously your choice. I would prefer not to risk my $1000 by purchasing OS. I have a good dealer I buy from who gives great back-up service. If everyone decides to buy their expensive items overseas we'll end up seeing the demise of the real tackle shops in this country. I own a few Daiwa's, and all but two, which aren't available here, have come from local dealers through Daiwa Australia and I will continue to do it to help protect our Aussie retailers. I could have saved some money by buying my Hyper Exist OS, (well Pam could have, as it was a present) but it was an easy choice to buy it here. If anything happens to it Brad will fix it, and I'm helping an Aussie family make a living, rather than a Japanese or American corporation. I'm not 100% sure you're correct on the price fixing allegation either, as I have received discount pricing at more than one dealer. Maybe they won't discount for you when you use the "I can get it overseas cheaper" line. From what I hear, most tacklo's are pretty sick of hearing that.

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:59 pm
by Bruce Anderson
Guy :roll:

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:55 pm
by Georgie
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the good people in the Daiwa Service Department especially Josh Carpenter. You see, I was one of those people that purchased Exist reels of an internet forum without physically checking them myself. Anyway S#%t happens and thats why the saying 'Buyer Beware' is tossed around. I have the reels now and use them regularly. The perform like the new ones I have purchased in Australia and the ones I have purchased from overseas. Josh Carpenter from Daiwa did a great job and would not let these reels leave the Daiwa Service Department unless they performed like new Exists and I thank him and Daiwa for that.
regards, George

Re: Warning from Daiwa about some Exist reels.

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:55 am
by LostNearBribie
That is excellent George. Thanks for posting that.